I'm not sure yet where I would place myself..I am tending towards critic but at the same time I do see the usefullness of the goals. At the end of this 8 months I should have a better idea!
Submitted by susangallwey on Wed, 11/03/2010 - 15:26.
I just remembered how last year, we finally managed to conquer the non-linear discussion thread problem----I think we should hit 'add new comment' each time we want to say something. I had been hitting 'reply' and now I recall that this is not the thing to do!! Sorry.
We are missing Vicky badly today, as she argues very passionately and powerfully against the entire structure of the MDGs. If she were here (Sorry Vicky for impersonating you!) she might quote Samir Amin, who said that the MDGs set the bar miserably low and even then, fail. So Vicky could make some persuasive arguments from the 'radical critics' camp (if that is indeed where you would place yourself!).
As for me, I think that by nature I am what Hulme calls a 'strategic realist' . What about you Aisling? and Denise? (if you manage to read this tomorrow)?!
Submitted by susangallwey on Wed, 11/03/2010 - 14:12.
Hi Aisling,
yes, you are! Sorry to be late, just in from a school workshop on...the MDGs! Children's responses to the Aid Question were, as usual, very interesting. They started by wanting to send their leftover dinners to Africa and ended by re-evaluating their own impact on our fragile planet. So I felt it was a good morning's work.
What did you think of the podcast and article? Any issues jump out at you?!
Submitted by susangallwey on Wed, 11/03/2010 - 14:31.
I was very interested in Hulme's account of the history of the MDGs. I think we tend to accept the final product of the 8 Goals as the only possible result, and Hulme helps us to see how one particular process of conceptualisation, negotiation, dilution and even chance led to the MDGs as we know them, and that at any stage the process could have taken a different route.
I felt that his comparison of the MDGs with the OECD/DAC's IDGs shows some of the strengths of the MDGs. When compared to the IDG alternative, the MDGs seem Human Rights-oriented, people-focused and essentially moral in character. But Hulme also shows how, in the 'Global Agora' out of which the MDGs emerged, the voices of the poor never got a real hearing. So, to me, the historical context revealed both the strengths and weaknesses of the MDGs
Yea, & while the podcast was in relation to an update of the MDG, it also showed both sides. I cant remember the name of who is was said that in Nigeria while enrolement was up, retenction is not so good. Again, this shows us the difficulty of how to make the most of the MDGs, & it tells us that it is not just about reaching the goals but all the considerations around that. even if the 'goal' is reached, what does this mean?
Submitted by susangallwey on Wed, 11/03/2010 - 15:01.
I totally agree with you, and I wonder if the whole 'goals' language makes development into a sporting event that needs to be 'won'. I think that heading into 2015, we will have to think of how we react to both reaching and failing-to-reach goals. If we reach a goal, then is the issue 'solved' ? (what about the people who are left out, such as the other half of people living in absolute poverty in Goal 1?) . And, conversely, if we fail to reach a goal, then are all of the positive outputs associated with the goal (eg, decreases in malaria) unfairly minimised? And, as one of the speakers commented at the end of the podcast, how do we get the international community to rally in 2015 IF we write off the MDGs as a failure? I fear that the alternative to the MDGs in this case will be apathy. Maybe the most important aspect of the MDG endgame over the next 5 years is how to salvage the good and build something better? If so, then how as Dev Edders do we proceed? Lots for us to think about....
I am new enough to Dev Ed so I might have found both pieces more interesting then
someone who already knows so much about the MDGs. I especially found Hulme's piece worth a read. The politics involved & the agendas that were considered highlighted how they came about, but also why certin MDG were watered down etc.
Submitted by susangallwey on Wed, 11/03/2010 - 14:41.
Hi again Aisling
Vicky just texted to say that she is having trouble getting online, so won't be able to join us. We may need to use the telephone conference option next time.
I'm not sure yet where I
I'm not sure yet where I would place myself..I am tending towards critic but at the same time I do see the usefullness of the goals. At the end of this 8 months I should have a better idea!
Aisling
Comments arriving in random places
I just remembered how last year, we finally managed to conquer the non-linear discussion thread problem----I think we should hit 'add new comment' each time we want to say something. I had been hitting 'reply' and now I recall that this is not the thing to do!! Sorry.
We are missing Vicky badly today, as she argues very passionately and powerfully against the entire structure of the MDGs. If she were here (Sorry Vicky for impersonating you!) she might quote Samir Amin, who said that the MDGs set the bar miserably low and even then, fail. So Vicky could make some persuasive arguments from the 'radical critics' camp (if that is indeed where you would place yourself!).
As for me, I think that by nature I am what Hulme calls a 'strategic realist' . What about you Aisling? and Denise? (if you manage to read this tomorrow)?!
Susan
the right place and the right time!
Hi Aisling,
yes, you are! Sorry to be late, just in from a school workshop on...the MDGs! Children's responses to the Aid Question were, as usual, very interesting. They started by wanting to send their leftover dinners to Africa and ended by re-evaluating their own impact on our fragile planet. So I felt it was a good morning's work.
What did you think of the podcast and article? Any issues jump out at you?!
Susan
History of the MDGs
I was very interested in Hulme's account of the history of the MDGs. I think we tend to accept the final product of the 8 Goals as the only possible result, and Hulme helps us to see how one particular process of conceptualisation, negotiation, dilution and even chance led to the MDGs as we know them, and that at any stage the process could have taken a different route.
I felt that his comparison of the MDGs with the OECD/DAC's IDGs shows some of the strengths of the MDGs. When compared to the IDG alternative, the MDGs seem Human Rights-oriented, people-focused and essentially moral in character. But Hulme also shows how, in the 'Global Agora' out of which the MDGs emerged, the voices of the poor never got a real hearing. So, to me, the historical context revealed both the strengths and weaknesses of the MDGs
What did you think of his article?
Susan
Yea, & while the podcast was
Yea, & while the podcast was in relation to an update of the MDG, it also showed both sides. I cant remember the name of who is was said that in Nigeria while enrolement was up, retenction is not so good. Again, this shows us the difficulty of how to make the most of the MDGs, & it tells us that it is not just about reaching the goals but all the considerations around that. even if the 'goal' is reached, what does this mean?
Aisling
goals and 'winners'
I totally agree with you, and I wonder if the whole 'goals' language makes development into a sporting event that needs to be 'won'. I think that heading into 2015, we will have to think of how we react to both reaching and failing-to-reach goals. If we reach a goal, then is the issue 'solved' ? (what about the people who are left out, such as the other half of people living in absolute poverty in Goal 1?) . And, conversely, if we fail to reach a goal, then are all of the positive outputs associated with the goal (eg, decreases in malaria) unfairly minimised? And, as one of the speakers commented at the end of the podcast, how do we get the international community to rally in 2015 IF we write off the MDGs as a failure? I fear that the alternative to the MDGs in this case will be apathy. Maybe the most important aspect of the MDG endgame over the next 5 years is how to salvage the good and build something better? If so, then how as Dev Edders do we proceed? Lots for us to think about....
Susan
no subject
......
Susan
Hi Susan, I am new enough to
Hi Susan,
I am new enough to Dev Ed so I might have found both pieces more interesting then
someone who already knows so much about the MDGs. I especially found Hulme's piece worth a read. The politics involved & the agendas that were considered highlighted how they came about, but also why certin MDG were watered down etc.
Anything new for you in them?
Aisling
non-linear discussion thread, sorry
Hi Aisling,
I commented but it came in (twice for some reason) above yours rather than below where it should be. Sorry!
Susan
Vicky's apologies
Hi again Aisling
Vicky just texted to say that she is having trouble getting online, so won't be able to join us. We may need to use the telephone conference option next time.
Meanwhile, will we soldier on a bit??
S
Susan
May as well, tel me more..i
May as well, tel me more..i feel so fresh & wide eyed about the goals. i get excited about the arguements, but i cant type very fast!
i found Hulme's article hard going. It was the lingo, almost political, but definately worth reading.
I wanted to retain it all to tell people the background but, of coarse, so much of it is lost already!
Aisling